We all know he trained under the legendary Turtle Hermit Master Roshi, who at one point was known as "the god of martial arts." However, even then, even with his pride working against him and his doubt eating away, Vegeta manages to hurt Perfect Cell very badly with a Final Flash. While casting the spell on vegeta babidi did say something about Restoring your power to the way it was before you decided to resist your dark nature . From his introduction in Dragon Ball Z's Saiyan saga to his current status as a leading figure in Dragon Ball Super, Vegeta has undoubtedly experienced the most character growth out of anyone in the franchise. While Vegeta wasn't a match for Frieza at this stage, the reason should be considered. First, he used a Spirit Bomb, and he needed all the energy the people of Earth could give. Goku has a better student mindset, he sees himself as the guy who needs to learn rather than the guy who should be ahead already. Like in the Cell Games where Vegeta has some serious development when Trunks is mortally wounded, and realizes that he's ignored his son and tries to avenge him and right his wrongs by unleashing everything on Cell. We'll skip the fight between Baby Great Golden Oozaru Vegeta and Goku, because it's difficult to say how much of that was Baby, how much of it was Vegeta, how much of it was the added Saiyan energy, and how much of it was a bit of a cheat from Bulma's moon ray. Take your favorite fandoms with you and never miss a beat. When Vegeta runs out of energy and drops form, Kid Buu's attacks should have killed him. In this form, Vegeta is arguably even more powerful than Goku when Goku powers up to his own Super Saiyan Blue … Press J to jump to the feed. Vegeta trains to be stronger than Goku. Yamu and Spopovich were given far, far greater strength. Namekian regeneration + Saiyan Zenkai = OP.). This is something Goku, in his estimation of his own abilities, said maybe to, if he was Supersaiyan 3. Super Dragon Ball Heroes: Universe Mission!! Vegeta did not, however, lose his desire for greater power – and is in fact motivated to train so he can surpass Goku in power. He grew up on Earth, he learned to fight on Earth, and he absorbed a uniquely Earthican way of doing things, including obtaining power. With access to Kaioken, the Spirit Bomb, and the powerful Kamehameha Wave, Vegeta's power was clearly superior. It can't really be said which counted for more, though. The creators of the anime must have felt the same way, because their disdain for the character showed even in their added content and the completely original DBZ movies. Idk if I agree, I think you may have it backwards. Here there is simply no data for comparison, except to say that Vegeta fought (and presumably gained power) while Goku lied in bed recovering. So you'd think in the Buu saga, Vegeta would have come around and cared for his family, right? This may have provided a release Vegeta sorely needed to realise his own potential, but it was his own potential. In Bog vegeta supasses goku by going enraged ssj2 doesnt this indicate that he is naturally stronger than goku? Vegeta says that the reason Goku continues to get stronger and break past his limits is because his motivation for training was greater. When in Dragon Ball is Vegeta stronger than Goku? This worked because of Freiza's 4th Form and what it was all about: Speed. So he'll probably beat Vegeta 8 times out of 10. There is no sincerity in his motivation. But word has it he also trained under Kami. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the AskScienceFiction community. It's really stupid and unfair. Who? The fact that they show Android 18 clearly outshining Supersaiyan Vegeta in combat prowess may seem bleak, but remember that at this stage, the most powerful fighters such as Goku, Gohan, and Vegeta haven't yet immeasurably outstripped the rest. Because the goddamn main character. No risk of being fused together forever. If they both had trained under similar conditions their entire lives, Vegeta might have become stronger. Vegeta never had the opportunity to train in this manner without having to use that water healing thing which takes forever to heal someone compared to a senzu. However, there is more than pride at work here. This impresses even ME! Vegeta is significantly stronger than Goku when they first meet. It was a personal thing, he was saying Goku is #1 as in he is superior to him and Vegeta is always a step behind and whenever Vegeta does get stronger Goku steps up to the plate and surpasses him again. Folks say he learned a technique that took Master Roshi 50 years to develop and master by seeing it once. Sure, Goku got to certain warrior milestones before Vegeta did, but Vegeta still got there eventually, polishing his battle skills along the way. As for the baby Cells each beating up a character (including Vegeta), that's easy. Fat Buu, who challenged Supersaiyan 3 Goku, and was beat up to the point of regeneration by Vegeta. Perhaps we'll see vegeta have something else too fromnwhen he was training with whis and goku was on earth Mistshadow, Apr 23, 2017. Vegeta was stronger than Goku in Dragon Ball Super season 1 physically without Goku using Kaioken x20 and Ultra Instinct Omen technique. Watch the episode. Where Vegeta fought and killed for pleasure and only sought to get stronger to strike down others, Goku trained to get stronger for the sake of … Seriously, I think the creators just have a thing for humiliating Vegeta and giving him unrealistic "a-hole" traits instead of focusing on his better ones. Super Dragon Ball Heroes: Big Bang Mission!!! He loves Trunks and Bulma and is using that love and this "What if?" He explicitly says "you were born with so much natural talent that no matter how much I trained, you were always a step above me" or something like that. First of all, Babidi didn't even make any promise to Vegeta about more power. However, Vegeta is much better in fighting skills and attack creation. Not until he achieved Supersaiyan. So while Vegeta probably is stronger in a purely physical fight, Goku's focus and mastery over his ki (which is often fueled by his righteousness and virtue), and especially his ability to maintain his ki despite getting massively beaten down, is why he'll always beat Vegeta in the long run Goku is also more willing to reflect on himself. He may have unlocked a higher form of SSJB or gained a substantial amount of power. Meanwhile, Goku was able to train in under 100 times normal gravity (something Vegeta had no access to at the time). I actually wrote a "detailed" summary as to why I believe he is stronger.. http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:The_large_gap_of_power_between,_Goku_and_Vegeta_during_the,_Majin_Buu_Saga?t=20121009035119. The reason that Goku became stronger than them is because Vegeta and Trunks' initial approach to getting stronger was just to try and pump more power into the Ssj form, which worked to a degree but resulted in an issue with muscle mass and the killing of speed as a result. His obsession with becoming stronger than Goku over-shadowed his need to protect his family. Evidence? See, Vegeta is already better than Goku in a lot of ways. Could he have actually learned the form if he hadn't been dead? But by the end of the series they are equal from their base forms through Super Saiyan 2. So, there are many reasons why most people think that between Goku and Vegeta, Goku is the strongest. Vegeta is significantly stronger than Goku when they first meet. Vegeta for much of his adult life had the same flaw that Frieza had. Outside of combat he's as dumb as a bag of rocks that have fetal alcoholism. A list can be provided, at every stage, of the aforementioned advantages Goku possessed in terms not of raw power, but special techniques very often learned from other races, or advantages in transformations. And thanks for the compliment about my post. He knew what the Saiyans could bring, so he kept Vegeta, and he watched him, and he learned his weaknesses quite deliberately. That guy, as far as we know, doesn't exist. There are advantages to being stupid. Goku threw Cell a senzu bean, the babies had the powerlevel of Cell, and Cell got a Zenkai from that bean. Still, since both Goku and Vegeta have access to the same transformation, it should theoretically indicate who is stronger. But by the end of the series they are equal from their base forms through Super Saiyan 2. via: syfy.com. Secondly, there's another, very plausible spin that can be put on Frieza's slightly fishy claim. As in, actual God of our world. New poster in this discussion. The other issue that became apparent in the Cell saga is that Vegeta doesn't allow himself time to rest. Dragon Ball Wiki is a FANDOM Anime Community. Natural talent is a part of the reason. I would argue that even though Vegeta is far stronger in every way, that even Tien has way more skill in ki manipulation than Vegeta. Vegeta can't user Ultra Instinct at all, he seems weaker. Even at Kaioken x20, Goku could barely do anything to Frieza. There was a fan-theory that shed some light on this - it comes down to their fighting styles: Vegeta was trained as a soldier, and learned how to fight armies. Such as being able to train in the Other World (twice) and access to the Gravity Machine before Vegeta. They have to be, since scouters explode at well below those powerlevels. Although at the end although never seen, i believe Vegeta had reached SS3. While there is a 30-minute time limit, that’s more than enough for Gotenks to beat Vegeta. Even when leaving Goku realised something about vegeta since he was looking forward to have a friendly fight against vegeta once again in which Vegeta replies When we fight we need a whole planet77.243.75.31 20:05, August 28, 2012 (UTC) Gab. Any other Buu, yes. Whereas, Vegeta was simply great upon his birth and didn't have to overcome the simplest things. Before encountering the earthlings, Vegeta didn't know how to sense ki or how to raise/lower his power level. Remember that at the end of DBZ, Vegeta had wanted to fight Goku once again. Then there's the issue of reducing one's energy while transformed. Perhaps, by saying he was only using a small fraction of his true power, he meant he was putting the rest into defense, which goes back to the previous point about turtling. Much of the fighting in DBZ comes down to ki mastery, something that can be taught to an extent, but will always rely upon the individual. Now, on to the part that matters: The fight with Omega Shenron. He was easily beating … One wonders why exactly that is when Gotenks didn't seem to have that particular issue. He's mastered his skills at all levels from the challenging the weakest to the strongest. Without a doubt, Vegeta is the strongest character in the Dragonball universe at this point. Goku always trained for the World Martial Arts Tournament, and learned how to handle single combat encounters. Due to this balance, we have enjoyed watching the rivalry between Goku and Vegeta throughout the show. Is Vegeta stronger than Goku anymore? In the episode where Goku and Majin Vegeta fight, Vegeta tells Goku he let himself become susceptible to Babidi's magic because he knew he by himself was no match for Goku. By forcing Vegeta into an enraged state, any chance Vegeta had of actually landing a blow evaporated. Why, Goku of course! So, there you have it. Expectation would be that it would simply cause a drop in form; that that much power output would be needed to maintain the transformation. The first is that inside the Hyperbolic Time Chamber, where both Goku and Vegeta got a chance to train, Vegeta barely acknowledged Trunks's existence, while Goku, thinking of passing the torch so that this time someone else would be the saviour, focused mainly on his son's improvement. Since UI Goku >>>>> Uub. They were probably still around equal in power and speed at the time. Vegeta is strong, and talented, but... too restricted. Nope, he still treats Trunks like crap. Perhaps it wasn't just a matter of Vegeta attaining his transformations late, but Goku getting them early. çYeah, I realized that was my mistake. The contention can certainly be held that Vegeta isn't, and never has been, weaker than Goku. So yeah he definitely is ahead. I had a similar one in another fourm the only thing you're wrong about is Vegeta reaching SS2, he only let Babidi take control of him so that he could regain his evil nature and fight ruthlessly his power didn't change. Wow! The power Cooler gained from the Big Gete Star was unreal. He does it all the time, testing new enemies and then finally going all out. They both pass out from being drained. Proper motivation is key. The case can be made that Goku was in fact weaker. A mastery of technique and an eye for battle mean Goku can overcome incredible differences. In this video we are analyzing the reasons why Vegeta is Stronger than Goku currently. This could be one reason why Goku is stronger, most of the enemies after the saibamen fought one on one, or at most 2 versus 1. He didn't see results, he was no doubt frustrated, and Babidi gave him an excuse to act out. "Now this is a power you ought to be afraid of." Despite their power levels indicating that Goku is stronger, albeit only slightly, there is more to it than this.Particularly in their stats, Vegeta and Goku are actually quite different. Does he have enough ammo left for Frieza? Frieza didn't seem to have the need to do this before. We know this because at no time did Vegeta ever approach anyone and ask to learn anything. Could he have "done it right" as Gohan did? http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:The_large_gap_of_power_between,_Goku_and_Vegeta_during_the,_Majin_Buu_Saga?t=20121009035119, https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Why_is_goku_stronger_than_vegeta%3F?oldid=1253555. In Broly Part II, a similar thing happens where Goten and Trunks pass out, but only Goten gets up. The thing about Goku is that even when Vegeta is stronger than Goku (and there are plenty of instances where this is the case) Goku is smarter. We have also seen during the fight with Super 17 that it is implied Vegeta is the strongest of the Z warriors if Goku isn't around, but this should NOT be the case because Majuub is absolutely stronger than Vegeta at this point and he was beaten easily by Super 17 while Vegeta lasted a little bit longer, and Gohan couldn't even win against Metal Rildo, let alone Super 17. Super Dragon Ball Heroes: Dark Demon Realm Mission! If Goku’s son continued to evolve and train, Gohan could have matured into the strongest Z fighter of all time. Vegeta wasn't even able to reach Super Saiyan 2 until Babidi gave him a lot more power. Goku clearly has surpassed Vegeta in strength more times than Vegeta surpassed Goku. Why should he falter now, if not because he simply wasn't quite ready to take that form? This is a recurrent theme, and Vegeta always trains accordingly, despite the fact that blowing away a large portion of Cell, just as Vegeta already did, was all Goku could do to Perfect Cell. Vegeta actually had a chance, he just didn't use it optimally. Either it's pride, or obsession, or ego, whatever is getting to him that day that causes him to lose focus. Fanboi: 347: 12/15 3:02PM: The Androids should've been no stronger than, at best, initial Freeza. Then, Frieza apparently changes his mind and deflects the attack instead. Then again we can't assure until they fight – Pablo May 5 '18 at 2:03 There is no opponent beneath him and no one holding him down, and winning and losing is less important than just giving it your best. But Vegeta, having the guns, would most likely waste an entire clip on a Raspberry. Because Goku is capable of actual love. Frieza had the added advantage of having known Vegeta from a child. One thing to note, though, is that Vegeta was a transformation lower than Goku, and was more than a match for him. Vegeta is literally stronger than goku right now. 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